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Designer’s Notes on the Testors UFO Model Based on Interview with Bob Lazar
( last updated 08/08/2001 )
{John Andrews was a military aircraft buff who regularly exchanged correspondences with all the
major players in this area, both in the civilian and military sectors. He was highly regarded by all his
peers. He was a principal designer for many plastic model kits of the Testors company, and was the one
who drew congressional wrath when he came out with an unauthorized model of the F-117 before the
military even informed Congress what it looked like. He had heard Bob Lazar’s story and on Testors’
behalf decided to interview him to see if his story sounded legit enough to invest the resources to
produce a model kit of Lazar’s UFO. Over decades Andrews said he became a pretty good judge of
character, and – despite some trivial faults (like Lazar lying to his government employers about his
academic credentials – was convinced of the overall tale Lazar was telling because it corroborated with
other information Andrews had accumulated from other sources.
What follows are excerpts from assembly instructions sheet that came with the Testors UFO model
…}
BACKGROUND
UFO sightings were common during World War II. Called Foo Fighters , balls of light joined
groups of airplanes, flew with them, then broke off and disappeared. They were harmless but could not
be explained.
After the war objects continued to be seen in the skies throughout the world. Discs were likened to
pieces of pottery, dinner plates and cup saucers. The term Flying Saucer was soon in common use.
Then a new identifier, Unidentified Flying Objects – UFOs – emerged.
Objects were caught on film and videotape as well as being seen on radar. Governments crated
study groups and issued reports. The reports often attempted to explain away the objects as natural
phenomena while adding the phrase, “… UFOs appear not to be a threat to our national security …”
Many sightings were never explained. Efforts were made to laugh sightings away and to make people
who reported UFOs appear as buffoons. A few were. The tactic did not work with many intelligent and
experienced individuals who stood firm in telling what they saw.
In July of 1947 a UFO allegedly crashed near Roswell, New Mexico. It was said that small bodies
were recovered along with parts of the damaged craft. On July 8th the United States Army Air Corps
announced it had recovered a flying saucer. The next day Air Corps Headquarters hastily retracted
their own story. Individuals involved with the incident have maintained it DID happen and over the
years additional people have come forward – some on their deathbed – to tell of their involvement and to
acknowledge the truth of the initial story.
Unlike the United States government, the Belgian Air Force – coming to grips with a wave of
sightings in 1990 – did admit to UFOs over their territory. Belgian F-16 pilots had visual and radar
contact with the UFOs but when they attempted to close on the craft, the UFOs sped off. Unidentified
Flying Objects appeared – at least to one government – VERY REAL.
50 years of UFO reports have been looked at. Sometimes with awe, many times with laughter.
Military pilots and airline pilots; radar technicians and scientists; and leaders of great nations have seen
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UFOs and have shown interest in the subject. A few nations have admitted to spending large sums of
money investigating the topic.
Technologies on Earth have rapidly evolved. We have sent craft from Earth to the outer limit of out
own solar system. And now we can see well beyond that limit. Is there intelligent life out there?
Perhaps the answer was given us in 1947 with the above-cited Roswell crash. We should be asking
another question: Have there been other crashes?
If you talk with physicist Bob Lazar, the answer appears to be a loud ‘Yes’ !! Lazar worked in the
nuclear lab at Los Alamos, New Mexico. Later he worked o a flying craft he claims was not made on
this planet. He worked on it at a place known to some as S-4. S-4 is separated from the Area 51 flight
test facility at Groom Lake, Nevada by the Papoose Range of mountains. The site is said to be built into
the western slopes of the mountains, east of and adjacent to Papoose Dry Lake. It is very remote.
Congressmen attempting to visit the site are told they can’t go because the area is radioactive. So
indeed they are told …
Lazar said 9 UFOs were housed at S-4 and he worked on one of them in the time period of 1988-89.
He saw it operate. He saw metal in one section of the craft turn a clear blue color and strange writing
scrolled on its interior surface. He saw the ship rise and hover over the desert floor. It was silent …
with only a slight wobble in flight. He saw posters on lab walls that humorously said, “They’re here!”
The craft Lazar claimed he worked on – he called it the Sport Model – is modeled here. Done in
1/48th scale, it has a 13-inch diameter while the actual craft is 52-feet in diameter. Lazar said power
comes from an antimatter/matter reactor in near-perfect thermodynamic balance. The propulsion force
is a form of gravity; created; amplified; and vector-directed aboard the craft. He added that time, as we
know it, is altered and – when at full power – light is distorted around the vehicle.
Bob Lazar cooperated fully with this researcher. He provided me with his W-2 tax statement. Using
the Freedom of Information Act, I contacted the Internal Revenue Service, the Naval Investigative
Service Command, and a prominent nuclear physicist [since identified as Dr. Edward Teller] Lazar
said assisted in his getting the research position at S-4. Correspondence back-and-forth took well over a
year, then stopped but without answers to my questions regarding Lazar’s work. I finally asked all 3
groups to tell me if Bob Lazar was a ‘liar’. Not one person in a position to truly know ever suggested
Bob Lazar was not telling the truth. The mail stopped coming and I was stonewalled in my quest for the
truth.
It is possible this kit is the world’s first authentic plastic scale model of a flying craft designed and
built on a planet of a star system outside our own Solar system. Enjoy your kit and watch the skies. We
live in interesting times …
The Beginning
I interviewed Bob Lazar in his home on 25 November 1990. The interview was lengthy, taperecorded and explained design points found in this replica. There were many other contacts with lazar
during kit research. He is an interesting person and one whose story has remained the same since day
one. When asked questions he does not offer answers to fill voids but states clearly, “I don’t know” or
“I didn’t see that.” That is a very refreshing and unusual characteristic when interviewing people
regarding the UFO topic.
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It is impossible to say Bob Lazar’s story is absolutely true and there is always a chance it is not. As
I indicated before, I asked responsible people to tell me if Lazar is lying. They refused to answer or
completely evaded the question. I proceed from that point.
According to Lazar there are 9 recovered craft in hangers cut into the mountainside at Papoose Lake
[at least during 1988-89]. Lazar worked on one of them and named it the Sport Model. The hanger
doors match the outside of the mountain, roll up when opened, and are camouflaged to match the terrain.
Security is very high at S-4. Guards are civilian, wear desert BDU uniforms and are armed.
According to Lazar there are many of them at S-4. The inside of the hangars are typical military style
with painted concrete floors, are well lighted and have numerous yellow work stands scattered about.
One of them had a white circle with the number 41 (in black) on it. The Sport Model rested in the
hangar on its lower surface. Lazar said he was on the main floor of the craft, viewed the lower area with
the Gravity Amplifier – moved them with his hands – but stated he was never in the upper floor of the
craft. He thought the upper area might contain navigation and electronic gear but her was not certain.
Lazar said the structure and surfaces flowed smoothly. He told me, “It was like one piece.” Every
corner had a radius. The material was like a huge seamless piece of stainless steel. He could not fit in
the seats. He could stand in the center of the craft but not at the edges. Lazar said his hair tended to
stand up while he was inside the craft. This indicated there was an electro-static charge in the object.
Lazar cautioned the craft was showing signs of roughness … the “human intervention” as he termed it.
Technical Note - Lazar said the ball-shaped end of the reactor houses a cone shaped layered mass
of a heavy material designated Element-115. It is a low-level alpha emitter. This material is used in a
matter-antimatter annihilation reaction.
Technical Note - The Gravity Amplifiers attach to the floor with what seems to be a “flexible
metal”. Lazar said he could move the amplifiers – felt their weight – yet they moved easily.
Historical Note - The Waveguide Terminator [one of the parts in the kit] is very similar to the top of
UFO photographed over McMinnville, Oregon in the 1950’s. Photos of the McMinnville UFO ran in
many newspapers across the United States.
Technical Note - Lazar said the access port to the lower level has a collapsing grid of hexagonal
cells. They pushed aside easily – moved sideways – to allow access to the area below. Bob Lazar said
he was amazed by the simplicity and how well it worked. He used the word “trick” to describe it.
Technical Note - Lazar said that one segment of the craft’s wall became clear when the power came
up. He described a section turning blue and a strange form of lettering scrolled on the section in a form
of Heads Up Display (HUD) that was actually the inner wall. Lazar could not explain how it worked.
He said he didn’t know.
Note - Lazar said someone placed an American flag on the craft when it was in the hangar built into
the west side of the Papoose Range of mountains at S-4.
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Technical Note - Lazar said the interior of the craft is like a well-coordinated symphony. There is a
flow to all aspects. Lazar stated he felt the internal design was an integrated blend of both structure and
power transmission. He said nothing was wasted, that perhaps it was a device with components and
systems “tuned” or in harmony with itself. He added he felt the technology may only be 300 years
beyond current Earth science. “Nothing really mystical about it,” he said while adding, “It wasn’t built
here.”
Historical Note - Many years of UFO history have produced people telling of sighting of so-called
“aliens”. There have been a variety of alien types and the stories often border on the bizarre. At the
same time a good number of the cases make for interesting study. Lazar said he couldn’t sit in the seats
in the Sport Model because they were too small. The question that follows is: Then who are these seats
designed for? Lazar is also very forceful in stating he never saw a live “alien”. He did say he read
summary reports on aliens while at S-4. Lazar said people working with him jokingly and very humanly
referred to the aliens as “The Kids”.
Astronomers have indicated they suspect there are tens of thousands of planets in
the Universe capable of supporting life. Whether there is intelligent life and whether it is capable of
visiting Earth remains open to wonderful discussion and heated debate. Truly curious engineers and
scientists always leave the possibility open to discover new things. As one very well known
aeronautical engineer has said, “All things are possible.” Others add, “The Universe is filled with
surprises yet to be discovered.” And why not? The Universe is – after all – a very, very big place!
“So when people they tell me they’ve seen UFOs, I don’t say they haven’t. In
15,000 hours of flying, I’ve never seen one. But I’ve talked to pilots who have. I talked to an airline
crew that swore up-and-down that an object came alongside them one night, and before they could do
anything it vanished. We lost a military pilot who went up to intercept strange lights and never came
back. His plane disappeared too. I won’t argue for or against.” -- Senator Barry Goldwater, The
New Yorker magazine, April 25, 1988
Word of Thanks
Plastic model kits come into being with the help of many people. There are connections, networks,
and years of quiet assistance and even resistance that adds zest to a project. There are people who –
because of their positions – can’t be named. They have my gratitude, my thanks and my sincere respect.
But these I can name: Robert Lazar, Gene Huff, Jon Farhat. Their help was direct, needed and is
appreciated. There are also sounding boards; those folks with whom I share thoughts and ideas and have
loud and long debates: Jim Goodall, John Lear, George Knapp, Lee Graham, Dr. Bob Jacobs,
Fletch Prouty, Ron Regehr, Glenn Campbell, Salley Rayl, Stuart Brown, and Lloyd Jones. A few
folks – in the process of doing a fine job in the assignments they hold – make things tough but not
impossible. I do respect them and offer my salute: Col. Richard Weaver, USAF (SAF/AAZ), Mr.
Pete Eames (UASF/AQ), Captain R.A. Jones, JAGC, USN, and last – but not least – the desert BDU
uniformed security force around Area 51 at Groom Lake, Nevada and at nearby S-4; they too do a good
job.
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UFO Research Continues …
Surveys of the United States’ population show any people have an active interest in the study of that
which is best described as UFOs. Indicators show over 67% of Americans think there is something of
curiosity related to the topic. I feel the same way; there is something of interest here and I’d like to
know more about it. And I’d like to hear from you. Have you seen a UFO? What is your story? Write
to me. I cannot promise a reply but you do have my promise your correspondence will be held in strict
confidence.
Write to John Andrews, 6755 Mira Mesa Blvd. #1230235, San Diego, CA 92121-4311
“In the ‘knowing’ I can always deal with whatever the situation is – it is the unknown, but implied,
that is frightening.”
-- Artist Barbara Mitchell on UFO secrecy, 1987
“… we often forget how much unites all members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside
universal threat to make us recognize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our
differences world-wide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world.”
-- President Ronald Reagan, Speech before the U.N. General Assembly, September
21, 1987
-- John Andrews
San Diego, CA
1994
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - note: because important web-sites are frequently "here today but gone tomorrow", the following was
archived from http://www.alienufoart.com/RoswellUFO.htm on November 5, 2003 . This is NOT
an attempt to divert readers from the aforementioned web-site. Indeed, the reader should only read
this back-up copy if it cannot be found at the original author's site.
BILL McDONALD's GENERAL COMPOSITE of the ROSWELL SPACECRAFT:
The "General Composite of the Roswell Aerospace Interplanetary Skiff" is originated and
forensically rendered from the testimony of multiple witnesses who were the retired United States Army
Counter-Intelligence Corps atom bomb security agents guarding all atom bomb manufacturing, testing
and deployment facilities in New Mexico from 1943 to 1951. Further and far more substantial testimony
came from Clarence L. ("Kelly") Johnson and Dr. Ben R. Rich, both of whom were the now deceased
founding CEOs of Lockheed Martin's famous "Skunk Works", as provided to Bill McDonald via the
inter-mediation of the late John Andrews, Special Projects Chief Designer of the Testor Corporation.
Kelly mentored Ben, and John Andrews.
The spacecraft was a single, integrated, machine component; the originating inspiration for all
high-altitude, hypersonic, "Waverider," aerosurf, "Biomorphic" aircraft and space shuttle configuration
concepts. She mimicked the design forms of multiple sea animals including porpoises and stingrays. Her
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life support system and in-flight ballast was an oxygenated amniotic fluid-like broth with an advanced
filtration system in the flight deck. She carried a crew of seven humanoids who interfaced with the
vessel's artificial intelligence (AI) cortex, directly, physically, through the headrests of their individual
crash-couches and their surrounding consoles. The organic minds of the flight crew are believed to
have functioned as "Multiple brain nodes" for distributed processing and navigation. They and the
spacecraft functioned as a "Combined biological organic/artificial life form and machine system."
Under contract, all copyrights for the "General Composite of the Roswell Interplanetary Skiff"
reverted back to forensic illustrator William Louis ("Bill") McDonald Sr. in July of 2000, from the
Testor Corporation. Copyright 1995, William Louis ("Bill") McDonald Sr. (e-mail Bill: Argonautgreywolf@cox.net )
Roswell UFO
About The
Model Kit
SPECIAL 50TH ANNIVERSARY COMMEMORATIVE KIT
Manufactured by the Testor Corporation
(Testor's Roswell UFO model kit was based on Bill McDonald's forensic illustrations and numerous witness testimonies.)
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What really happened in Roswell New Mexico in 1947?
TOP AIRCRAFT DESIGNER REPORTEDLY CONFIRMED ROSWELL
CNI News Correspondent Michael Lindemann writes:
"This information was acquired by Bill through private conversations with the late John Andrews
of the Testor Corporation. McDonald, a private investigator and forensic composite illustrator who has
made detailed reconstructions of the Roswell UFO based on eyewitness testimony, worked closely with
Andrews on the design of Testor's Roswell UFO model kit which was released in July 1997 on the 50th
anniversary of the Roswell incident. Based on McDonald's original drawings, Andrews developed the
Roswell model piece-by-piece, and McDonald in turn created blueprints which resulted in Testor's
tooling for the kit. What began as a business relationship evolved into a deep personal friendship. In
time, Andrews shared information that confirmed elements of McDonald's Roswell investigation.
Finally, McDonald says, he prevailed upon Andrews to ask then-ailing-from-cancer Dr. Ben R. Rich -late head of Lockheed's "Skunk Works" -- to describe the relationship, if any, between possibly
recovered UFO materials at Roswell and advances in aircraft design that occurred starting in the mid1950s. McDonald resolved to withhold the answers while Andrews remained alive. Testor Special
Projects Chief Designer John Andrews died also of cancer on Good Friday, 1999."
Formal announcement from William Louis ("Bill") McDonald Sr.:
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 14:43:15 -0700
From: "William L. & Lori M. McDonald" <Argonaut-Greywolf@home.com>
Subject: Excerpt from my OneList discussion with Hal Puthoff
Hal was pointing out the obvious. This is precisely what I have been closing my lectures with for the
past four years. How can anyone miss the comparison that my Stingray/Porpoise-like Chimaera design
has in common with the three "Aurora" planes, the F-117 Nighthawk, the TR-3A "Black Manta",
and even the original old YF-12A/SR-71 Blackbird spy planes of Kelly Johnson's genius.
Well Hal, you asked for it!
Now that legendary Lockheed engineer and Chief model kit designer for the Testor
Corporation John Andrews is dead, I can announce that he personally confirmed the design
connection between the Roswell Spacecraft and the Lockheed Martin Unmanned Combat Air
Vehicles (UCAVs), spyplanes, Joint Strike Fighters, and Space Shuttles. Andrews was a close
personal friend of "Skunk Works" CEO Ben Rich, the hand-picked successor of Skunk Works
founder Kelly Johnson and the man famous for the F-117 Nighthawk "Stealth" fighter, its "Halfpint" prototype the HAVE BLUE, and the top secret F-19 Stealth Interceptor. Before Rich died of
cancer, Andrews took my questions to him.
Dr. Ben R. Rich confirmed:
1. There are two types of UFOs -- the ones we build and ones 'THEY' build. We learned from both
crash retrievals and actual "hand-me-downs." The Government knew, and until 1969 took an active
hand in the administration of that information. After a 1969 Nixon "purge", administration was handled
by an international board of directors in the private sector.
2. " 'An' item" -- as opposed to " 'The' item" -- was recovered near the world's only combat
operational atom bomb base (Roswell AAF) in 1947. Hull design, aerodynamic measurements and
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propulsion info was passed directly to Jack Northrop and Kelly Johnson beginning in 1950 with a
major block of data being passed on from "The Working Group" at Wright Patterson AFB's Foreign
Technologies Division in 1952. " 'The' item" refers to the top-secret designation of Kelly's original
variant of the U-2 (TR-1) spy plane in Congressional and Pentagon budgets in the 1950s.
3. Nearly all "Biomorphic" aerospace designs were inspired by the Roswell spacecraft from Kelly's
SR-71 Blackbird onward to today's drones, UCAVs, and aerospace craft.
4. The inward canted vertical stabilizers of the F-19, the HAVE BLUE, many drones, some UCAVs,
and the SR-71 matched the 30-degree inward cant of the Roswell spacecraft's shark fin-shaped pair of
vertical stabilizers or "Winglets." The same goes for the wing camber to fuselage "Blend" of the
airframe designs.
Have Blue and XST compared to alleged Roswell craft
5. The outward cants of the F-22 Raptor, the F-117, the McDonnell Douglas YF-23, and the TACIT
BLUE stealth concept prototypes perform similar aerodynamic functions for stability in high
performance flight.
6. Rich observed that the impression Kelly Johnson's contacts had [of 'Them'] was negative, and
Kelly implied in rare conversations on the subject that "Factions" from "Out There" were a threat more
than they were a blessing, and that the cost of having 'Them' around was "Unimaginable" and
"Unbelievable".
7. It was Ben Rich's opinion that the public should not be told. He believed they could not handle
the truth, ever. Only in the last months of his decline did he begin to feel that the "International
corporate board of directors" dealing with the "Subject" could represent a bigger problem to
citizens' personal freedoms under the United States Constitution than the presence of off-world
visitors themselves.
Andrews passed this information on to me in stages, from 1994 until my last phone conversation
with him around the Christmas holidays of 1998.
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= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
It should also be known that Dr. Ben R. Rich attended a public aerospace designers and engineers
conference in 1993 before his illness overwhelmed him in which he stated in the presence of MUFON
Orange County Section Director Jan Harzan and many others that "We" (i.e., the U.S. aerospace
community/military industrial complex) had in it's possession the technology to "Take us to the stars".
It has come to Bill McDonald's attention that Dr. Ben R. Rich, Dr. Clarence L.
("Kelly") Johnson (Prior to his death in 1990), Air Force scientist Dr. Robert I.
Sarbacher, and John Andrews corresponded regularly on these subjects from 1985
through possibly 1993. Bill personally has in his possession a zerox of a hand
written letter Ben Rich wrote to John Andrews which also refers to Dr. Sarbacher
from 1986 confirming this line of inquiry
note: because important web-sites are frequently "here today but gone tomorrow", the following was
archived from http://www.alienufoart.com/KennethArnold.htm on November 5, 2003 . This is NOT
an attempt to divert readers from the aforementioned web-site. Indeed, the reader should only read
this back-up copy if it cannot be found at the original author's site.
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John Andrews Letter to Ben Rich regarding his belief in
"Manmade UFOs" and "Extraterrestrial UFOs." July 10, 1986
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Ben's Answer to John's letter
July 21, 1986
"Yes, I'm a believer in both categories." --Ben Rich
"The significance of the letters above are that Kelly Johnson observed a
"Batarang"-shaped craft close but not identical to the "Batarang" craft that was
number eight in the line formation of "Scallop-shell"-shaped craft. This observation
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was made in 1951, a report of which was made directly by Kelly to an associated
personal friend, USAF Lieutenant General Donald Putt, who was known for his
documented personal assessment of the AVRO Canada saucer configured vehicles
in 1953 and 1954. Kelly Johnson later observed a football stadium-sized disc vehicle
pacing an early variant of his "Connie" in December of 1953. This was also
reported directly to Lt.Gen. Putt. Putt was historically associated with USAF Major
General Samford and USAF Major General Roger Ramey, during the official
debunking operation that the USAF undertook after the two weekend UFO flap
over Washington D.C. and the eastern seaboard in July of 1952."
--William L.
McDonald
addendum: Mr. Andrews has died due to cancer since writing this. He was in his 60’s.
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